Setting a 60s vintage Automatic Triple Date Moonphase

[CAPROIC1949]

Hello, I recently purchased a 60s vintage Triple Date Moonphase Zodiac and need to set the day & date. The watch does not respond to my depressing the buttons on the side of the case. I put the hands at just after midnight and I can get the date to start to advance in response to the button, but it won't click over. I cannot get the day to respond at all. Couldn't find instructions on line so here I am at the font of all things Zodiac. Thanks in advance.

[jmh86325]

i recall that using the correctors between 9PM and 3AM is a no-no. Hopefully BWG or Yuriy will chime in...and if you don't know the service history, pls, pls pls get it serviced, It has a lot of moving parts that they don't make anymore.

[CAPROIC1949]

Thanks for the advice. I bought the watch from Farfo who told me the watch was serviced.

[Ultra-Vintage]

I always tell customers to only use the advancement buttons when the watch shows between 4 and 6 o'clock.  The day-date advances at 12am, the moonphase at 12pm, however, the buildup to these can be long and it starts much earlier than that (and it can take a while for the parts to clear after said function has happened).  So using the advancement buttons before/after that time can bend the levers/springs involved in making those functions work.  Additionally, there can be other issues with the buttons in that they might not be moving smoothly and can get jammed.  In that case, not only will they not advance the day/date/moonphase respectively but they can also prevent them from advancing during the normal running of the movement.

So unfortunately, the problem could be one or multiple things along that line.  A "serviced" watch should not have any of these issues, but if these things were not addressed during the service they are sure to pop up again afterwards.

[CAPROIC1949]

Day, date & moonphase are advancing as you indicate, but the month does not. Do I understand correctly that the month must be advanced manually? Moonphase advancing by the button at noon - I won't do that again knowing what I do now - but none of the other three complications advance although the day & date moved slightly in response to the buttons, but do not click to the next position.

Trying to be cautious (now that I know of the potential damage I can cause) - does it matter if it is 4 to 6 AM versus PM? Too I assume the crown should be pulled out, stopping movement, when setting these other complications?

[Ultra-Vintage]

The month must be advanced manually.  Zodiac only had 1 or 2 manual wind models that were "perpetual" (month advanced with the running of the watch or with the corrector button).

No, with the watch showing 4-6 o'clock (am or pm).

Crown does not need to be pulled out to use corrector buttons.

Sounds like the buttons themselves are jammed or filled with debris.  The corrector buttons for these models can be problematic.  Are you trying to push them with something small enough to allow them to go as deep as they need to?

[CAPROIC1949]

Many thanks for your generosity with this information.

With hands in the proper position I can get the moonphase to advance, the day & date "flex" (move slightly) but won't click to the next position, and the month doesn't budge. Time to go back to the seller who services watches.

[Ultra-Vintage]

Many thanks for your generosity with this information.

With hands in the proper position I can get the moonphase to advance, the day & date "flex" (move slightly) but won't click to the next position, and the month doesn't budge. Time to go back to the seller who services watches.

That would be my suggestion as well.  Since they are the ones that had it serviced, and whom you purchased it from, it is best to have them check it out.  Having a third party check it out may void any warranty the seller provided you at the time of purchase.

[Butch]

Not saying anything about any particular seller here. Just some food for thought for anyone reading this.

A Seller probably pays $200-$300 for a 3DMP to begin with.
A real service runs $300-500 depending on how bad off it is and any needed parts.
These things resell for $500-900, depending on condition.
Do the math here.

When any seller says it has been serviced I seriously doubt that it was more than a $40 dunk and swish. A real watchmaker will spend a week just getting the pushers to work right on these 40-60 year old 3DMPs.

NOT selling this, but if I were to, this one would go for $1,500. See what I am saying?

[CAPROIC1949]

The end of my saga to set the dates & moonphase on the Zodiac - I was finally able to make all the buttons work. Setting the hands in the proper position the key in the end was using a tool that was narrow enough to push the buttons far enough. They now click sharply and with relative ease. In the course of this I obtained a scanned copy of the attached instructions from the seller which I share for others who may own this model. Thanks again to all who jumped into this thread.

[Butch]

Glad you had a happy ending. I presummed you were using a push or safety pin to set it as UV called out earlier. Much else simply does not work.

[CAPROIC1949]

Indeed, safety pin did it. Ball point pens no matter how fine a point do not. I was concerned using a pin of the potential to scratch the case, but realized a safety pin is not quite as sharp as other pins and taking a lot of care to keep the pin in the depression in the button... voila!

[Butch]

No, pens will not work. FWIW I use a toothpick.

[CAPROIC1949]

Tried toothpick today - Brilliant! thanks

[LunaLooker]

Hopefully not violating any rules on thread necromancy, but ...

I am so glad this thread was here. I read it in the days before receiving my 3DMP, and the information was invaluable for me setting my watch. Per Ultra-Vintage's recommendations, I set the watch between 4 and 6 (5 to be precise) and was easily able to set all the calendar functions without risk to the watch.

Well, maybe not entirely risk-free. I do not know the service history of the watch, but I am already in the process of getting that sorted out soon with BWG

And Butch: definitely great advice on using a toothpick.

[Butch]

No worries, we raise the dead here all the time. This is why they are here, and the Search function. Good job!

[hoangminhung]

Hi all, i just purchased a vintage Triple Date Moonphase Zodiac . But i dont know anythings about it except it's name
Can you help me to know about it ? Some infomation as what year it was produced ? And what its movement ?

I can see some line print on case (6h & 12h).
The line on 6h side is : GOLDELECTROPLATED G.20 SAD
And the other line is : 2243186

I have attached 2 image of it.

[Butch]

That is a gold plated model from the 1970's. You set it by the pins on the side. Here are some others like it. Nice watch!

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/gallery/MoonandCalendars.php

[YuriyV]

Can you help me to know about it ? Some infomation as what year it was produced ? And what its movement ?

This model of Zodiac Moonphase named Grant style 1737 circa roughly 1964. Was in production up to early 1970s (?)
Caliber - Zodiac 74

[Butch]

This model of Zodiac Moonphase named Grant style 1737 circa roughly 1964. Was in production up to early 1970s (?)
Caliber - Zodiac 74
[/quote]

Yes, see page 8 in the 1975 catalog. This is the last official pic in Zodiac literature I can find. It is not in the '77 or the '84 catalogs.

[hoangminhung]

This model of Zodiac Moonphase named Grant style 1737 circa roughly 1964. Was in production up to early 1970s (?)
Caliber - Zodiac 74

Yes, see page 8 in the 1975 catalog. This is the last official pic in Zodiac literature I can find. It is not in the '77 or the '84 catalogs.

Thanks alot for your information
I dont know how to open its back case, so i can't check its movement model
With your information , i have searched its spec like this :

Zodiac 74
- automatic
- sweep second
- day: set by pusher at 10h
- date hand: set by pusher at 4h
- month: set by pusher at 2h
- moon phase: set by pusher at 8h
- 11.5
- Dm= 25.60mm
- 21 jewels
- f = 21600 A/h
- power reserve 40h

Once more time, thank you guys a lot @Butch @YuriyV 

[hoangminhung]

I have just opened my watch's back case. Its say
74 Zodiac LTD
UNADJUSTED SWISS
SEVENTEEN 17 JEWELS

But when i search information for Zodiac cal 74 , it come with 21 jewels ? Is this 2 version of 74 Zodiac ?

[Ultra-Vintage]

I have just opened my watch's back case. Its say
74 Zodiac LTD
UNADJUSTED SWISS
SEVENTEEN 17 JEWELS

But when i search information for Zodiac cal 74 , it come with 21 jewels ? Is this 2 version of 74 Zodiac ?

Many of the Zodiac calibers at this time had at least 2 jewel count variations.  The difference is often the lower seconds wheel jewel and the auto assembly jewels.

[hoangminhung]

Many of the Zodiac calibers at this time had at least 2 jewel count variations.  The difference is often the lower seconds wheel jewel and the auto assembly jewels.

Thanks for your information, the fewer jewel version look like cheaper

Does it have same F and power reserve ?

[hoangminhung]

I have some problem with my Zodiac triple date moon phase ! The month window do not change when date change from 31->1 automatically !
I try some way to test it, and its do not work at all

So, i back to the seller and he tell me that old version triple date moon phase Zodiac need to change month manually . Does it true ??

[Butch]

Per the email where you asked me the same thing:

In this same thread is a picture of the Special Instructions. The very last part of it says the same thing.

You watch appears to be working as intended.

[hoangminhung]

Per the email where you asked me the same thing:

In this same thread is a picture of the Special Instructions. The very last part of it says the same thing.

You watch appears to be working as intended.

@Butch , thank you 
I got it