FS: Zodiac Panda Dial Cal 12 " Heuer Carrera 1153s" w/ JB Champion Flex Fit Brac

[yinzerniner]

After getting advised by Butch and schooled by Ultra Vintage on the fallacies of my initial post have edited with greater accuracy and truthiness. Thanks to both for the heads up and guidance/scorn. Please only slightly hold my prior ignorance against me.

For Sale is an early 1970's vintage Zodiac chronograph watch, white Panda dial configuration with two black subregisters and date. This watch shares a lot of design elements with the Heuer 1153S and the dial under certain lighting conditions still shows the Heuer shield and "CARRERA" insignia. Serial number and model designation are still visible. The watch is powered by a Chronomatic Calibre 12 / Zodiac Cal 90 movement with a 42 hour power reserve. Item is in good used condition, TZ Rated conservatively at 83%, with some scratches and dings throughout the unpolished case, almost no aging to the finish on the dial, and minimal tritium lume loss. Includes a JB Champion Zodiac bracelet with flex fit expansion. All text is complete and clear. Original tritium lume on hands and dial, with very little loss. Due to the lack of a running seconds hand exact timing cannot be accurately determined, but showing about a minute gain per week; service history unknown. Case, crown, pushers, bezel, insert, dial, hands are all original. Movement, chronograph function and crown are operating as intended, and pushers are very solid. Acrylic crystal has tiny almost imperceptible scratches on the surface, can easily be removed by polywatch. Clasp is in original condition with scratching, but closes firmly and securely. Item includes the following:

-Watch Head
-Zodiac signed JB Champion Flex Fit Bracelet

Item Specifics are:
-42 mm Diameter Cushion Case
-13.5 mm Thickness
-Acrylic Crystal
-Stainless Steel Case
-Water Resistance unknown
-20mm Wide Lugs
-Roughly 42 Hour Power reserve
-Chronomatic Calibre 12 / Zodiac Cal 90 chronograph movement
-Zodiac signed JB Champion Bracelet - currently sized to 7.25", can accommodate at least an 7.75" wrist

And now for the pics:
















I'm asking $2300.

Payment Details:
- Attachments and other options
Shipping via FedEx ground are included in my asking price. Bank Wire / other direct transfer methods accepted. Paypal good/services accepted with +3% fee, references and feedback. I'm willing to ship internationally but extra shipping and possible import fees might be applicable. If in the NYC/CT/Northern NJ area we could do a face to face. For references I have spotless Ebay feedback which I can refer to you, with identity verification, and also have done a few deals on WuS, TZ, CT and on the Omega forum with positive feedback. If there are any questions please feel free to contact me via PM and I will answer as soon as possible. Reasonable offers are welcome.

[Butch]

No it didn't and no it wasn't.

http://www.vintagezodiacs.com/zforums/index.php?board=4.0

[yinzerniner]

Care to elaborate?

There are more than a few documented Zodiac Chronos which are identical to the Heuer Carrera 1153, either in N or S dial.

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=31653
http://chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?md=read;id=60939
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/z.Poor_Man%27s_Carreras/Zodiac/Caliber_12/

While they may not have been "Made" by Heuer, the case designation and covered "Heuer" insignia clearly show that the bones are the same. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "Zodiac made up of the same parts as the Heuer 1153?"

Not looking to ruffle feathers, but clearly based off of concrete evidence the design is pure Heuer even though the dial spells Zodiac.

[Butch]

I guess you did not read the entire forum. You are a thought of one here on that.

[Ultra-Vintage]

Care to elaborate?

There are more than a few documented Zodiac Chronos which are identical to the Heuer Carrera 1153, either in N or S dial.

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=31653
http://chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?md=read;id=60939
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/z.Poor_Man%27s_Carreras/Zodiac/Caliber_12/

While they may not have been "Made" by Heuer, the case designation and covered "Heuer" insignia clearly show that the bones are the same. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "Zodiac made up of the same parts as the Heuer 1153?"

Not looking to ruffle feathers, but clearly based off of concrete evidence the design is pure Heuer even though the dial spells Zodiac.

Sorry, but no.  The same dial manufacturer made the dial, and they would use already made up extras to rebadge and ship to different companies.  I have seen the same exact thing on other vintage original dials that shared designs, that were nothing like Heuer watches.  Heuer personally made nothing on their version of that watch, nor did they make any part of your Zodiac watch.  An outside case company made the case, a dial company made the dial, and the movement is Buren based (for which both Heuer and Zodiac among others had help in designing, but collectors cannot just think it is Heuer because the fans believe them uber-important now).  I have asked Heuer fanboys to provide proof of all these claims, claims that litter the internet and are used as the only basis for existence of some other sites, but they cannot provide them.  I was told by the person that created the whole "Poor-Man's" concept that it is based off of a private conversation that he had with someone for which he has nor will provide proof of.  Also, Zodiac retail prices were often within a dozen or two dollars of Heuer retail prices at the time, so the the whole "Poor-Man's" moniker is a fallacy.

The design is not pure Heuer either, or else they would have registered it and made it exclusive.  Several cottage industry Swiss companies came together to coordinate and manufacture that dial/hand design with that case design, meant to work with the Buren based chrono movement.  In regards to either Zodiac or Heuer for a model such as this, their involvement was just in servicing the movement and assembling the watch for retail sale.  Meaning that in an instance like this, Heuer does not deserve to be placed on the pedestal they have been.....

[yinzerniner]

Updated post after consultation with Butch and Ultra Vintage. Bump it up!

[yinzerniner]

Thanks VZ Forum!